View Full Version : Need Advice
06-21-2007, 11:28 PM
okay, I've got a question for all you ladies out there, but first let me preface by saying that I'm happily married (stay with me here) and I'm trying to help my best friend, who happens to be a helpless romantic, get a date. So the question is, what do you ladies look for most in a guy, regardless of appearance?
06-21-2007, 11:30 PM
I like a man who is confident (I'm sure you know what I mean by this), and light-hearted! Really, that's pretty much my most important things. There are others that come further down on the list like tolerant, forgiving, a willingness to step outside his box etc, but the first two are my main draw cards to a guy.
06-22-2007, 12:14 AM
Honesty and a very good sense of humor. I adore guys that have the ability to come up with a one liner out of the blue.
06-22-2007, 01:52 AM
Yep, here's another vote for a good sense of humor. Funny guys get girls, regardless of appearance. That's the first thing I noticed about my husband's personality when I met him....he's hilarious.
Personally, I hate HATE when men act cocky and brag. I don't care if he's funny, rich and will clean the house - if he's an egomaniac I wouldn't give him the time of day. Truly secure, confident men don't need to act like this.
Your friend putting the word out to friends that he'd like to be set up with a nice woman wouldn't hurt, either. As long as it doesn't come across as desperate. ;)
06-22-2007, 02:19 AM
Well that's something interesting, humor. His sense of humor is odd, mostly slapstick humor. but I think his biggest problem is that he doesn't know what to say first time out, the icebreaker sort of thing. He's told me that he's tried all sorts of things, but I believe that his confidence comes off as cocky, though some women have told me that he comes off as being very creepy.
Though he says he can't understand why women won't accept somebody who is willing to provide a house, a car and what not. He's heavily into classic cars, and won't drive anything newer than 1970. And while all the cars he has do run, IMHO they look like junk, but I'm not a big car fanatic. I did try to get him interested in knitting though that went over like a lead balloon. :D Anyway, keep the advice rolling in, I appreciate all the comments, and I'm pretty sure he'll appreciate it when he can get a date. :)
06-22-2007, 03:06 AM
Did they elaborate in what way they find him 'creepy' or do you happen to know how he attempts to approach a women - you know, does he use lines and which ones... Very few lines have ever been appealing to me, but there have been a couple that have worked, but that has generally been because of the 'energy' of the man using the line.
06-22-2007, 07:19 AM
I think that your friend needs to make sure he doesn't try to "force" the interest. Pick-up lines...YUCK!
For instance, he could probably find a lady at a classic car show, where a mutual interest would be a nice ice breaker.
I think one of the things that draws a woman to a man is the way he acts around children and/or animals. I read once that how a man treats his animal can be quite indicative of how he treats people. And you know, I've noticed this too.
Another thing that is important (of course, it's hard to tell when you first meet someone) is how the guy handles stress/pressure. Does he go with the flow or get bent out of shape easily. No one wants to be around a guy who loses his cool quickly.
Those are just a few things off of the top of my head...
06-22-2007, 07:28 AM
One other big thing is this, keep the crude jokes and one liners for the boys. Its rare to find a woman that is happy with bawdy male humour. Something I find intensely attractive in a man is basic good manners. I don't mean calling someone "ma'am" that just makes me think its a bit patronising or makes me feel like their mother.
Basic good manners include, always introducing the people you are talking to; always offering for the lady to go first through a door etc - she might not always go through first but if you are holding the door open and gesturing for her to go first it indicates politeness.
Several people I work with fit this category. One, a young boy, was working in the studio - every time we met on the stairs he would step to the side and let people pass (not just women) he had exceptionally good manners. Everyone one of us all thought of him as a nice boy - and not in the least creepy.
I don't know what makes one man creepy and another not - certainly my boss is ultra charming and gets away with blue murder because he is just so charming. Anyone else in the office acting and talking like him would likely be thought of as very creepy. It is totally attitude and charm that helps.
Your friend needs to not be overbearing, some nonchalance and not over attentive is good or one can feel smothered. Sometimes people (men and women) smother the partner too much and it comes off as desperate and creepy. I made that mistake once, was labeled a bunny boiler and have never made that mistake again. Sometimes I'm probably too nonchalant and have known exes think I don't much like them when in fact I was really into them.
06-22-2007, 08:53 AM
Honesty and a good sense of humor along with nice manners are number 1 for me.
06-22-2007, 09:35 AM
The creepy probably plays into him trying too hard. It sounds like he needs a "wing man"...even better, a "wing woman" (perhaps your wife, if he has no female friends?). Someone to bolster his confidence, and help "interpret" whatever weird thing comes out of his mouth. Someone who can send him on his way to get drinks, or napkins or whatever and then turn to the object of his attention and say, "He's a really nice guy, but beautiful women make him really nervous and he just starts to pluck things from the sky. But if you give him a chance, you would really like him."
It sounds like he may be socially stunted and doesn't actually know how to approach women. Tell him to have heart, though! There is someone out there for everyone!
As for what I looked for in a guy:
-A good listener...too many guys only want to talk about their interests (like his cars, maybe?).
-Consideration of others...he doesn't have to have impeccable manners, but it should be obvious that he is aware of others and that he takes their comfort into consideration.
I wasn't physically attracted to my dh when I first met him...he was completely not my "type"...but he is brilliant and funny and genuinely caring and I find all of those qualities to be very sexy in a man.
Before I started dating my boyfriend, I think what I found remarkable in him was the fact that he naturally wants to help people all the time. He doesn't help people because he has to. He does because he sincerely wants to. I don't know if what I mean is clear. But no guy I ever dated before were as attentive and thoughtful as he was (and still is) with me, but with others as well. I think many guys are trying to be attentive, but it doesn't always come out as being sincere.
I think it's very important, in a couple, to have similar life expectations, values and interests. Of course it doesn't have to be a 100% match. But if your friend is really that interested in old cars, it's definitely a place to start! I think some women could like his sense of humor. He shouldn't try to "conform" too much to an image of what a guy should be. He should just try to find the right person for him! I know, it's not that easy...
06-22-2007, 09:55 AM
Though he says he can't understand why women won't accept somebody who is willing to provide a house, a car and what not.
That's an odd way to phrase it. Personally, that'd be a huge turn off for me. I don't want someone to "provide" me with things, I want to be with someone I consider an equal--in intelligence, responsibilities, sense of humor, etc. Someone who I can be silly or serious with. Even if there's an inequality in salary, I would want to contribute to the overall financial situation, not feel like I'm being "provided" with something.
Maybe I'm interpreting what he said wrong, but that could be a problem in his approach. :shrug:
06-22-2007, 10:21 AM
Being as I've been married for 15 years it's hard to say since I'm not looking for a man. But over the years in work or social situations I have met a few men I really like and I notice they usually have a few things in common with my husband. I like men who are well and broadly educated. Not men who think they know everything and don't. The truly well educated ones don't flaunt it but I can pick up on it just in normal conversation. Like someone said before being able to provide for a woman is not inticing. I can provide for myself thank you very much, granted it may not be as much or as nice as what he could provide but I'm doing fine. Definately being treated equally, and not just trying to but it has to be truly imbedded in the mans character that women should be treated with dignity and respect, they need to have been raised this way so they do it without thinking. Good humor, not forced. Humor that reflect intelligence and education is far better than just stand up with lots of swearing. Also it's best if the guy isn't trying to hard. Just talking to all people- men and women in a relaxed manner, getting to know them and showing interest in the conversation. This is better than coming up to the woman because "ah there is a potential woman that I better get to know because she might be the one."
And someone mentioned how they treat kids and animals but more importantly, how a man treats his mother says a lot. If he has no respect or caring for his mom he isn't likely to really respect women. Oh and my number one criteria which is my advice to all single women: He has to be able to cook and that does not include barbecue, frozen pizza, or ordering take out. If he can't cook forget it!!
06-22-2007, 10:22 AM
I agree with Stiney... if I ever heard someone say something like that I would be gone. (that isn't to say i think he said it to a girl ... just that i would expect someone who says that to have their next line be "well you must just be a lesbian then." :roll:) I am sure it is just the way i am interpreting it through this medium but it is still weird to me.
That being said, I am a sucker for reeeeeally bad pick up lines. The ones that are so outrageous that nobody should ever get by with saying them. There was a line on Friends where the guy said to Pheobe, "You are the prettiest fake undercover wh*re I have ever seen." That TOTALLY would have worked on me... in the short term anyway...lol
My list of things that are important to me... funny, smart, caring, a strong sense of family, and a strong sense of self. I watch how people interact with me when I am on a date but most importantly I watch how they interact with the people around us. I know that in a first date situation he is totally trying to impress me. I want to know that he is going to treat the wait staff well.
06-22-2007, 10:30 AM
That's an odd way to phrase it....Maybe I'm interpreting what he said wrong, but that could be a problem in his approach. :shrug:
Actually, no, I'd say you hit it pretty close to the mark, my wife has also noticed the same thing. She doesn't like being provided for, so even though she doesn't earn money at a job, she keeps the home clean, cooks dinner, and that sort of thing. I asked her about it once, primarily because people thought I was being chauvinistic about it, and she had told me that it's because of our son, not that she can't earn money, but that she would rather share in responsibility of keeping the home well run, and that I should earn the money while she gets to spend it....but I digress.
I would agree that he does need a female friend, but he ends up making my wife mad at him just about every time he comes out. I had suggested that he start with her, and if he could become friends with my wife, then he could do it with anybody. He believes he was born 50 years out of date, and personally, I would think that would have to do with the fact that he's still having trouble accepting that men and women are more equal these days than they were accepted 50 years ago. In short, I'm thinking he has a big chauvinistic attitude. Think I should get him to a matchmaker? :rofling:
06-22-2007, 10:47 AM
In short, I'm thinking he has a big chauvinistic attitude.
There's a woman for him out there somewhere, you just wouldn't find her on this board, apparently. :lol: We don't seem to be the submissive types.
I know many couples who've been happily married for years. A few of them have a very dominant/submissive dynamic going on and it works for them. Your friend just needs to find a traditionally-minded woman who wants a man to tell her what to do. Believe me, there are plenty of them out there.
At least he knows what he's looking for. Now he just needs to put himself in places where he can meet that kind of woman. If he can tone down the bravado and let women see his sweet side he'll be fine.
BTW Rorshach, you're a really good friend to help him out this way. I hope he realizes that. :)
06-22-2007, 10:50 AM
Most importantly I look for someone who is just overall a nice person. Cocky guys are a huge turn off because they usually think they are the greatest thing going. A good sense of humor is very important; someone who can act silly (at the appropriate times) and laugh with you makes the relationship fun. I also agree with mulene, good manners are a must. He doesn't have to be a knight in shining armor but just have common curtsey and respect for others.
06-22-2007, 10:50 AM
I totally understand your wife's perspective. It's not a path that I would choose, personally, but she isn't being "provided for" she's just contributing in different ways.
I'm not sure what advice to offer your friend. What about him upsets your wife? Is it the chauvinism, or something else? Because your wife won't be alone if it is the chauvinism.
Hmmm... well I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in "traditional" values, but your friend must realize that even a traditional woman nowadays expects to be treated as a partner and an equal. She could be ok with having your friend "provide" a house and car for her, but I'm 100% sure she also expects her role to be recognized and her opinion to be as important as his. It's not a business transaction where "I provide this, you provide that. Deal!". It's about building a life together, making choices based on your particular context and on your values and priorities. Why does he want to find a woman? I think I would start with that. He wants someone because he's bored? He's tired of cooking for himself? He can hire people for that! :teehee: Because he "should", because of the role it would give him in society? That's not a good reason either. If he's looking for a life partner who shares similar goals and values, and he's willing to compromise some things to be with that person because he truly believes they can both be happy in this relationship, then we might be going somewhere.
06-22-2007, 12:38 PM
Well, Stine, that I don't know, but I think it's all the "pull my finger" jokes, and generally brash annoyance. I will ask my wife about it, if you're truly interested.
I have had him try to role play with my wife, asked him to treat her as if she were not married to me, and to find out what she's interested in, unfortunately, he won't do it because it offends his sense of things. But he says he cannot be a friend to a woman, so it's either all the way "I'm your girlfriend" or nothing at all. So far it's been the nothing at all, and he's not taking that well.
06-22-2007, 12:55 PM
I've been with my husband for 18 years (married for 15 of em), but even though I'm not looking, I can see what I would not like in this guy or that... and likewise, I know when I could be attracted to a guy. I think if he's making your wife angry and annoyed most of the time, I have to think that maybe he's just a good ol' butthead. :teehee:
Maybe that came out wrong, but do you know what I mean? If he's annoying, I'd not want to be around him even for a platonic relationship, let alone in a dating scene. If a guy is overbearing, or trying too hard, brash, unrefined, lacks basic good manners, talks about himself too much, brags and tries to impress, I'd say he's annoying.
I get the feeling he's trying too hard and not really thinking about the woman. Some guys have a hard time seeing a female as anything more than a curvy man... meaning they think that what works with his buddies should work with her. That's soooo not so. And the men with all the ladies hanging on every word know this.
Straight up, he needs a wingman/woman. Someone who's going to smack him in the head and tell him that's so not cool. Maybe he'll start to learn. ;)
06-22-2007, 01:12 PM
He sounds like he might have undercurrents of hostility.
If so, I would tell him to lose them first thing.
If not, sorry for misinterpreting.
06-22-2007, 01:33 PM
I think if you're not willing to have a woman as "just a friend" you will never be successful in a romantic relationship.
It sounds like maybe when he does meet women he would be the type to try and put his "assets on the table". You know, "I have this..." "I have that...." "I can afford this...." I don't know any woman who is into that type of thing. It makes a man come off as lacking in confidence, and frankly weak.
When men have the attitude that they have to "provide" for the little women, they come across as though they have no belief that their personality will be acceptable.
It also strikes me (the born 50 years too late thing), that he really doesn't understand relationships. the 1950's as portrayed on T.V. is little woman at home, cooking/cleaning/being told what is right/father know's best kind of thing. Now days T.V. portrays, father's and idiot/mother puts up with it, lets father think he knows what to do/what's going on, while she slyly fixes everything. Neither of these interpretations of family life or relationships is correct. But with some men it's easy for them to romantasize the 50's portrayal.
Relationships unlike juciers are not "as seen on t.v." branded. Has he ever had a girlfriend? How/where is he trying to meet women?
No offense but your friend seems a bit immature and lacking in social graces. All that being said. Personally, I am a total toilet humor kind of girl. I grew up with guys, in college all of my roomies were guys (3 guys and me), I work in an extremely male dominated field, I love that type of humor, and many of the girls I know do. No exclusively that humor, but I can get down and dirty with the best.
As for qualities in a man? Loyality, manners, willingness to help, trustworthyness, good friends, humor, good familial relationships, and someone to whom money is not important. Enough to live yes, but someone who finds joy in life not possessions. And also important, someone who wants to listen to me, and who will laugh with me to at me when I do something dumb. :lol:
06-22-2007, 03:15 PM
I agree that you're friend comes of as quite immature. And Iza does raise an excellent question: Why does he want a woman? By identifying a precise reason(s), he (or YOU ;) ) can make a more informed decision as to how to adjust his approach and/or determine if he needs to take closer look at himself for re-evaluation rather than simply trying to figure out "what women want". :thinking:
Don't get wrong, I don't advocate changing yourself to suite others for sheer sake of pleasing someone else. However, if you want something bad enough and for logical reasons, the subject of compromising comes to mind. Besides, he can't really change who he is ... but he can certainly update himself if he finds that he needs to.
As for what makes me do a double take for a guy: Gotta have a personality; Must be trustworthy; Must have a sense of humor; Must be humble; Must be open-minded. And for ---k's sake, leave the damn one-liner, meat-market mentality where it belongs - in the garbage disposal!! :ick:
06-22-2007, 04:57 PM
Wow, just wow, I definitely appreciate all the replies. From what I know of what he wants, they would have to like what he has, it's okay if they want to work, but I get the feeling that he would prefer it if they do not. He does tend to judge by appearances, and doesn't want a woman who is even slightly overweight, granted, he's skinny, and fairly muscled, but not what any of the women who know him would call handsome. she should know how to cook, clean and in general take care of him, and unfortunately, he doesn't know how to cook or clean. neither is really hard to learn, but he doesn't want to try it.
*Well I just talked with my better half, and she had said that the reason she gets annoyed by him, is all the childishness, such as the "pull my finger" and thinking farting on somebody is hilarious...okay, side note, it's not the actual fart, it's the look on people's faces that he gets a kick out of...and most importantly, she hates putting in an idea for his problem, only to be interrupted two words into it.
Comes across creepy. Wants a woman to take care of him. Won't accept flaws like weight. Sorry, your friend is doomed.
Seriously, I don't intend to be harsh, but he's the type of man from which most women run.
06-24-2007, 10:54 PM
Heh, no need to apologize to me, I was the one who was asking for the advice. no, the real question is now, do I tell him everything I've learned from you gals? I am his friend, and as tough as it is, he's easily hurt.
Can I ask how old he is?
When I first started reading this thread, I was going to ask how he and your wife get along, but if he doesn't believe in having female friendships, I don't think he's going to find a real 'partner'. But there are women out there looking to be provided for and are fine with a 'business deal', you just won't find them here.
06-25-2007, 02:00 AM
yeah, he's 35....no, really, he is.
06-25-2007, 02:32 AM
i think he needs to first realize a great relationship starts with friendship. everyone i know in a longterm relationship is truely friends with thier partner. if he can't get past that point, then just about every relationship he enters will probably fail.
there are plenty of women out there who will find him funny and decent, but if he can't even picture being just friends with a woman, he won't ever move past that to a relationship. :shrug:
i definatly think he should join a local car club where he will meet others with similar interests, and maybe a woman willing to give him a chance. me and my dh hit it off the first night we met (in late 2000), and were inseperatable ever since! he was completely himself, and so was i.
i think your friend really needs to learn to relax and be interested in what any woman he is talking to has to say. i am a wife who is 'taken care of' :rollseyes: but i am respected and treated as an equal. i see lots more lonely years ahead if he can't even listen to what a woman has to say.
btw-my dh has a friend a lot like yours.he married a very quiet girl, who is very much a wall flower and i can't stand him. overbearing and loud and thinks everyone thinks just